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	<title>Comments on: Reform Rabbi&#8217;s Use of Jewish Law makes me say: Oy vay!</title>
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	<link>http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2009/07/02/reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay</link>
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		<title>By: Kathy Holshue</title>
		<link>http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2009/07/02/reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Holshue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the opportunity to &quot;go&quot; to synagouge.I am disabled and live in a very rural area. I feel a little less alone, and Iam enjoying your online site.           Kathy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the opportunity to &#8220;go&#8221; to synagouge.I am disabled and live in a very rural area. I feel a little less alone, and Iam enjoying your online site.           Kathy</p>
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		<title>By: LGreyhawke</title>
		<link>http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2009/07/02/reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>LGreyhawke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/?p=2168#comment-230</guid>
		<description>To paraphrase Einstein, &quot;Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds&quot;. 

The virtual synagogue is, in my opinion, a wonderful option for those who do not have access to a brick and mortar synagogue. Certainly, a virtual congregation is a new idea but face it, while our meeting place is a virtual site, WE are real. Our need for congregation with like-minded people is real. I believe this serves an invaluable role in assisting many of us in participating in a Secular Humanistic Jewish community. If I were concerned about fulfilling halachic law, I would be not be a Humanistic Jew.
Bravo to Beth Adam for putting this opportunity out there for those of us hungering to participate in a Humanistic Jewish group. I hope this site continues to thrive and brings to us REAL people in this virtual community, the beauty, wisdom and hope that is Humanistic Judaism.
Shalom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase Einstein, &#8220;Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds&#8221;. </p>
<p>The virtual synagogue is, in my opinion, a wonderful option for those who do not have access to a brick and mortar synagogue. Certainly, a virtual congregation is a new idea but face it, while our meeting place is a virtual site, WE are real. Our need for congregation with like-minded people is real. I believe this serves an invaluable role in assisting many of us in participating in a Secular Humanistic Jewish community. If I were concerned about fulfilling halachic law, I would be not be a Humanistic Jew.<br />
Bravo to Beth Adam for putting this opportunity out there for those of us hungering to participate in a Humanistic Jewish group. I hope this site continues to thrive and brings to us REAL people in this virtual community, the beauty, wisdom and hope that is Humanistic Judaism.<br />
Shalom</p>
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		<title>By: Cynthia Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2009/07/02/reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have been asked to present a D&#039;var at an event
that will take place in August (P. R&#039;eih). I would like to quote my own work here:

...All of these laws become the subject of discussion in modern times.  How do they relate to us, who are not agrarian, who do not live in tribal groups, who follow a faith that is now ancient, not newly forming?  We read, we argue, we discuss, we wrestle with the commandments of 
then, and try to discern their meaning now.  This,
I believe, is the the real foundation of our faith - not following blindly, but questioning everything and making very personal decisions in how to lead our lives, because intention matters.
 
...in addition to the rules, God also handed down
intelligence, logic, and reason.  I think God expects us to use them, even in the questioning 
of Mitzvot [or halachic law, for that matter].

All of these commandments are like stones we use in building an individual character.  Each of us must decide which stones will best support and define us, which stones have purpose and meaning, and which get in the way of our connection to
God and fellow man. In the end, our thoughtful intention, our kavannah, becomes visible to others through our actions, through the stones we choose.  Every stone is beautiful, and our personal choice of what is most precious to us presents a striking pattern of an individual personality. ...........................

As a calligrapher, a quote I learned early on has
stayed with me, applicable to so many situations.
&#039;Within the limits of our craft we cannot have too much freedom.&#039;  The human spirit, in its quest
for spiritual communion, has quite enough limits
imposed by modern life and daily responsibility.
Give us freedom - religious freedom, spiritual
freedom.  We are timid enough because we are only
human; we need every encouragement to engage our
own souls, and seek our God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been asked to present a D&#8217;var at an event<br />
that will take place in August (P. R&#8217;eih). I would like to quote my own work here:</p>
<p>&#8230;All of these laws become the subject of discussion in modern times.  How do they relate to us, who are not agrarian, who do not live in tribal groups, who follow a faith that is now ancient, not newly forming?  We read, we argue, we discuss, we wrestle with the commandments of<br />
then, and try to discern their meaning now.  This,<br />
I believe, is the the real foundation of our faith &#8211; not following blindly, but questioning everything and making very personal decisions in how to lead our lives, because intention matters.</p>
<p>&#8230;in addition to the rules, God also handed down<br />
intelligence, logic, and reason.  I think God expects us to use them, even in the questioning<br />
of Mitzvot [or halachic law, for that matter].</p>
<p>All of these commandments are like stones we use in building an individual character.  Each of us must decide which stones will best support and define us, which stones have purpose and meaning, and which get in the way of our connection to<br />
God and fellow man. In the end, our thoughtful intention, our kavannah, becomes visible to others through our actions, through the stones we choose.  Every stone is beautiful, and our personal choice of what is most precious to us presents a striking pattern of an individual personality. &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>As a calligrapher, a quote I learned early on has<br />
stayed with me, applicable to so many situations.<br />
&#8216;Within the limits of our craft we cannot have too much freedom.&#8217;  The human spirit, in its quest<br />
for spiritual communion, has quite enough limits<br />
imposed by modern life and daily responsibility.<br />
Give us freedom &#8211; religious freedom, spiritual<br />
freedom.  We are timid enough because we are only<br />
human; we need every encouragement to engage our<br />
own souls, and seek our God.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2009/07/02/reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/?p=2168#comment-223</guid>
		<description>Yes.  These are all the things I was thinking as I read this article.  Additionally, I was also thinking that when the laws were written, it&#039;s not like the internet was around and they were like, ok, we can only meet in person, not on the internet.  There WAS no internet, so how do we know whether or not it&#039;s ok according to these laws to &quot;meet&quot; on the internet?  In that rabbi&#039;s comments, he noted that it was important to meet in person.  Well, don&#039;t we call &quot;places&quot; on the internet &quot;sites&quot; and say we&#039;re &quot;going&quot; online and &quot;meeting&quot; in chatrooms?  Use of the internet is described via the language of the physical universe; why, then, is meeting in person any more valid than meeting online? And, for many people who can&#039;t physically get to a synagogue (e.g. invalids, rural dwellers), is it really fair to deny them access a &quot;place&quot; to go to be a part of a real religious community, albeit online? As our friend Robert Zimmerman said, the times they are a-changin&#039;. If our religion doesn&#039;t change with them, it will go the way of Zeus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  These are all the things I was thinking as I read this article.  Additionally, I was also thinking that when the laws were written, it&#8217;s not like the internet was around and they were like, ok, we can only meet in person, not on the internet.  There WAS no internet, so how do we know whether or not it&#8217;s ok according to these laws to &#8220;meet&#8221; on the internet?  In that rabbi&#8217;s comments, he noted that it was important to meet in person.  Well, don&#8217;t we call &#8220;places&#8221; on the internet &#8220;sites&#8221; and say we&#8217;re &#8220;going&#8221; online and &#8220;meeting&#8221; in chatrooms?  Use of the internet is described via the language of the physical universe; why, then, is meeting in person any more valid than meeting online? And, for many people who can&#8217;t physically get to a synagogue (e.g. invalids, rural dwellers), is it really fair to deny them access a &#8220;place&#8221; to go to be a part of a real religious community, albeit online? As our friend Robert Zimmerman said, the times they are a-changin&#8217;. If our religion doesn&#8217;t change with them, it will go the way of Zeus.</p>
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		<title>By: tmana</title>
		<link>http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/2009/07/02/reform-rabbis-use-of-jewish-law-makes-me-say-oy-vay/comment-page-1/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>tmana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ourjewishcommunity.org/?p=2168#comment-221</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard discussion of several variants of &quot;minyan&quot; (quorum) -- the most common being the &quot;egalitarian minyan&quot; (10 warm bodies 13 years old or over in the room, take your pick as to whether or not they have to profess Judaism as their religion and whether or not they have to be bar/bat-mitzvah) and the &quot;Palestinian minyan&quot; (9 men, or in an egalitarian congregation, 9 warm bodies...) As these variants were discussed in a Conservative context, I must believe that a Reform rabbi would have a similar consideration.

From here in New Jersey, what I see of Our Jewish Community is a virtual place where issues of interest to Jews (because they affect our very sense of &quot;Jewishness&quot; and our survival as self-identified Jews) can be discussed in a forum that imports both sacred and secular references and a wide range of mindsets. I do not see it the way I see a &quot;congregation&quot;, which to me revolves around a brick-and-mortar building with a bimah somewhere in the main sanctuary (Eastern side for Ashkenazim, center for Sephardim) and an Ark within which are kept several hand-transcribed, parchment-leather copies of the written Torah.

While the inclusive view must embrace those who would follow the services along at home over the Internet, I would reason that the only quorum *known* to the officiants would be that quorum which was *physically* present, in the physical sanctuary, where the physical Torah was kept, and read from, and so on -- and this is the group that must meet the congregation&#039;s requirements of &quot;minyan&quot; (see above for variants). This may be that rabbi&#039;s reasoning as well.

Failing the physical quorum, the reduced set of prayers (those not needing a minyan) could still be said, the parshah read from a chumesh and discussed in the same d&#039;var Torah that would otherwise be discussed, and so on. (We did it often enough in university...)

Now... to belabor the point a bit, I have seen congregations whose beliefs in Jewish observance were tucked into a &quot;more liberal/less literal&quot; movement of Judaism than the core belief set because the otherwise-&quot;correct&quot; movement would not accept one or more tenets of that congregation&#039;s interpretation of the requirements/mitzvot of observance -- for example, historically, Egalitarianism. My understanding is that a congregation still not have an Egalitarian service and call itself Orthodox -- even if it uses Orthodox siddurim, does not use any English in the services, keeps a Glatt Kosher kitchen, and so on. Until the Conservative movement started ordaining female rabbis -- some years after I graduated university -- such a congregation would have had to have called itself &quot;Reform&quot;. 

I realize this is a rather long commentary, but I hope it gives you another perspective from which to examine that rabbi&#039;s comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard discussion of several variants of &#8220;minyan&#8221; (quorum) &#8212; the most common being the &#8220;egalitarian minyan&#8221; (10 warm bodies 13 years old or over in the room, take your pick as to whether or not they have to profess Judaism as their religion and whether or not they have to be bar/bat-mitzvah) and the &#8220;Palestinian minyan&#8221; (9 men, or in an egalitarian congregation, 9 warm bodies&#8230;) As these variants were discussed in a Conservative context, I must believe that a Reform rabbi would have a similar consideration.</p>
<p>From here in New Jersey, what I see of Our Jewish Community is a virtual place where issues of interest to Jews (because they affect our very sense of &#8220;Jewishness&#8221; and our survival as self-identified Jews) can be discussed in a forum that imports both sacred and secular references and a wide range of mindsets. I do not see it the way I see a &#8220;congregation&#8221;, which to me revolves around a brick-and-mortar building with a bimah somewhere in the main sanctuary (Eastern side for Ashkenazim, center for Sephardim) and an Ark within which are kept several hand-transcribed, parchment-leather copies of the written Torah.</p>
<p>While the inclusive view must embrace those who would follow the services along at home over the Internet, I would reason that the only quorum *known* to the officiants would be that quorum which was *physically* present, in the physical sanctuary, where the physical Torah was kept, and read from, and so on &#8212; and this is the group that must meet the congregation&#8217;s requirements of &#8220;minyan&#8221; (see above for variants). This may be that rabbi&#8217;s reasoning as well.</p>
<p>Failing the physical quorum, the reduced set of prayers (those not needing a minyan) could still be said, the parshah read from a chumesh and discussed in the same d&#8217;var Torah that would otherwise be discussed, and so on. (We did it often enough in university&#8230;)</p>
<p>Now&#8230; to belabor the point a bit, I have seen congregations whose beliefs in Jewish observance were tucked into a &#8220;more liberal/less literal&#8221; movement of Judaism than the core belief set because the otherwise-&#8221;correct&#8221; movement would not accept one or more tenets of that congregation&#8217;s interpretation of the requirements/mitzvot of observance &#8212; for example, historically, Egalitarianism. My understanding is that a congregation still not have an Egalitarian service and call itself Orthodox &#8212; even if it uses Orthodox siddurim, does not use any English in the services, keeps a Glatt Kosher kitchen, and so on. Until the Conservative movement started ordaining female rabbis &#8212; some years after I graduated university &#8212; such a congregation would have had to have called itself &#8220;Reform&#8221;. </p>
<p>I realize this is a rather long commentary, but I hope it gives you another perspective from which to examine that rabbi&#8217;s comments.</p>
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